Future of Conservative Judaism: Does it have one?
In case you haven't noticed, my commenters have been giving me much food for thought, lately. Miami Al, a baal t'shuvah/"returnee" to Orthodox Jewish, make the following comment to this post:
Shira . . .You also wrote, "Al, you have no kind words for Conservative Judaism."
Neither do you. :) It's been a failure. . . .
The Conservative movement doesn't have room for observant families as your son's experiences show... it falls into the same trap Reform did... focusing too much on the adults."
Re the lack of room for observant families, this sort of attitude doesn't help the Conservative Movement.
On the other hand, Conservative Rabbi Lerner thinks that this is not the time to say Kaddish for Conservative Judaism. What do you think?
posted by Shira Salamone at 12:10 AM
27 Comments:
I heard Chancellor Eisen speak on this subject. He said to look at Conservative JUDAISM, not at the Conservative Jewish institutions (USCJ, etc.). Look at the dynamic synagogues and the minyans that do not affiliate but sure look like they are practicing Conservative Judaism (Hadar, Mission Minyan, DCMinyan, etc.) There is a Judaism that is flourishing, especially among Jews in our 20s and 30s. It is not waiting for the malfunctioning institutions to lead it.
I wish them luck, but I don't think that the unaffiliated masorti (roughly, "traditional") Minyanim will preserve or revitalize Conservative Judaism, but time will tell. My loathing of the Conservative movement as a bastion of pitifulness doesn't change the fact that I think a dynamic semi-halachic movement to the left of modern Orthodoxy is critical to create a counter balance to the takeover of modern Orthodoxy by Hareidism.
A lot will depend on the school situation, but I fear that the impending death of the day school will create an interesting dynamic. They are dying because of out of control tuition increases, in large part because they have turned their Judaic half over to Hareidi Rabbis instead of lay Orthodox teachers, which means paying more money (guidelines treat semicha/ordination as a doctorate, whether it's a 4 year post-college program like YU or the Conservative programs, or a hand written letter from a Kollel Rabbi for a 20 year old with barely a high school diploma), and paying that money to the right wing community... further, since the cowardly Modern Orthodox leadership won't distinguish their hashkafa, these employees espouse a right-wing Judaism which leads students into the poverty driven Hareidi camp. This, combined with run away overhead and administration is pricing the schools out. Some families will send their children to Yeshivot instead, bleeding to the right, otherwise will experiment with Charter Schools and Public Schools.
Assuming the continued success of Ben Gamla Hebrew Charter School, you may see an educational merging of the Conservadox (ideologically egalitarian, committed to Halachic practice, or at least Shabbat/Chagim/Kashrut). In that scenario, the Conservative could certainly run their own after school Judaic program, but if the schools are 75% Orthodox, 25% Conservative, how many will simply opt for the Orthodox school which won't require an expensive synagogue membership, or any effort on their part.
Further, if the practicing Conservative students are friends with the Orthodox kids in school, how many will pressure their parents to move inside the community eruv so they can play on Shabbat (when their Shabbat lacks playmates that their Orthodox peers have). Once that happens, even if they then drive to/from their Conservative Shul before resuming Shabbat at home, how many will be pressured to stop driving to Shul so that their kids friends can comfortably come over on Shabbat instead of always going to the Orthodox kid's homes. Once that happens, perhaps they'll occasionally davin at the Orthodox Shul, especially if they have a lunch invite from someone there.
I agree that there is innovation in the independents, I just think that they are more likely to get swallowed up in the local Orthodox Shul (perhaps with a partnership minyan under the Rabbi's official approval) then rejoin the conservative movement's dying institutions.
My wife noticed on Facebook that all her active Conservative/Reform friends from college (the committed egalitarian and committed liberal Jews) have their religious views tagged as Jewish - Orthodox (or Jewish - Modern Orthodox, Jewish - Orthodox, Modern, or something similar)...
They may not have formally done a BT track, but for committed Jews, it's easier to swallow you ideological differences 2-3 hours/week at Shabbat morning services than it is to swim upstream culturally the other 165 hours/week.
Short answer: No. No future.
Every single observant Conservative Jew I know (self included) now is either Orthodox or a rabbi (or both). When I was a teen, my Conservative Rabbi, a son of the former chancellor of JTS told me that I would be a "Conservative success story and either be a rabbi or Orthodox."
Pointing to the independent minyanim is a farce. the independent minyanim are post-denominational. I don't consider them halachic, for the most part, but they don't consider themselves conservative in either theory or practice.
Young observant people are either creating their own institutions (or non-institutions) or become Orthodox. There is no Conservative Judaism outside of institutions and your blog.
Ask yourself this: How many observant non-professional Jews do you know who consider themselves conservative?
And, by the way, one of my undergraduate degrees is from JTS. I was incredibly active in USY, went on USY pilgrimage, etc. I've got a sterling Conservative pedigree. Shortly after the Conservative movement released "Emet ve'Emunah" it's statement of principles some time in the late '80s, I realized that there was no there there.
How ironic! The chancellor of JTS, certainly a Conservative Jewish institution, sees Conservative Judaism flourishing in institutions that are mindfully post-denominational. I suppose it doesn't matter to him how they identify themselves - if he considers them dynamic Conservative Judaism then it must be so.
Bingo, the Conservative Movement tries to count masorti (traditional) Jews as Conservative... the intellectually dishonest Israeli branch even named themselves Masorti to try to steal demographics.
The masorti Jews are GENERALLY nominally Orthodox, the Shul they don't go to is Orthodox. Some may still affiliate with a Conservative Shul for historic reasons, but are just as likely to davin at Chabad or the local Shul as there.
The problem you have is that semi-observant people believe that Jews should keep Shabbat, Chagim, and Kashrut, whether they do so or not. Such a Jew is going to be more ideologically comfortable in Chabad, Aish Hatorah, or driving and parking down the street from the Orthodox Shul and walking over than going to a Conservative Shul. The ONLY scenario where the Conservative Shul makes sense is in cases like Shira's, where the wife is the observant one and the husband is disinterested (my in-laws are close to that as well), in that case "they go" to the Conservative Shul, which means the wife goes, and the husband shows up twice a year...
I think that if the minyanim were forced to affiliate with a denomination, they'd at best join the UTJ wing of conservative, while UTJ dreams of being accepted as the left-wing of Orthodoxy by getting all their Rabbis Rabbanut Semicha.
The question in my mind is this, as the "Conservative Success Stories" are members of Young Israel or OU Synagogues, do the Conservative Institutions have the ability to reposition themselves inside of the Orthodoxy big-tent?
My guess is... yes... there are rumblings of ordinating women within Orthodoxy... the opposition in Modern Orthodoxy is cultural, not ideological, and you have a handful of cases... women who use an alternative title... with precedents from the 17th and 18th century.
Women's Tefilah groups will create a need for a woman leader for them, and while a woman couldn't serve as the "communal" Rabbi in terms of leading the main service, there are plenty of "Rabbi jobs" in Orthodoxy that would be acceptable for women to hold... the communal Rabbi is a SMALL portion of the Rabbi jobs in Orthodoxy... Seminary leaders, women's school leaders, Mikvah running, women's minyanim, Bat Mitzvah programs, women's learning groups, women's shirum (lecturs) etc., all have room for a woman to lead them... right now they are normally run by a Rebbetzen or other well regarded woman who officially turns to another Rabbi as Posek, and all areas where a Female Rabbi could find gainful employ full/part time, even if nominally answer to the community Rabbi.
BTW: to a Conservative Jew, that may sound condescending, but that's from not understanding the Orthodox structure. I'd say 90% of the Rabbi employment options could be open to ordained women, even if it was just for teaching women (but if that happened, even if technically male Rabbis could teach both, in practice female Rabbis would teach children and female students, male Rabbis would teach children and male students). The "answering to the community Rabbi" would be no different from an established community with 5-15 Shuls where the nominal "religious" authority is the Vaad/Beit Din/largest Shul.
It's most theoretical, but in my small community, there is the main Ashkenazi Shul, a Sephardi Shul, and an Aish storefront. A potential convert is pointed to the main Shul, the Rabbi there oversees Kashrut, etc., doesn't make the other Rabbis any less responsible for their flock.
A female Rabbi could certainly lead a "progressive" minyan, provided that Baal Tefilah and Baal Korei are male, with a "down the middle" mechitza where she could certainly address the community from the women's side... you're talking about a big enough podium to keep the Torah slightly to one side, not a big deal. The progressive minyanim up north use ficus trees in pots as well... :)
The biggest sticking point would be acknowledging JTS "semicha" pre merger, but that could be handled delicately by having anyone interested work with UTJ or Shulchan Aruch Semicha, to get Israeli Rabbanut Semicha, which could be done in the privacy of their own home via email and a big group trip to Israel to test... That would let the MO accept them without accepting JTS...
Most likely, JTS will stay conservative as the last bastion of conservativeness, and by the time they'd try to rejoin Orthodoxy, they won't be needed.
I think that the institutions and their power will die off with their congregants, and we'll lose the Conservadox Jews as they drift away instead of bringing them home into our new open Orthodoxy that they helped create by their children filling the ranks of Orthodox Shuls.
Sorry I haven't been around much lately, but I've been distracted by this thing called a job: I'm working on a major project at the office, complete with (unpaid :( ) overtime.
Just a quick thought on the way out the door to the occupational therapist (who's paid to torture my formerly-broken wrists until they're functioning more-or-less normally again), followed by the office: Anons 6:41 AM and 10:12 PM, and just about everyone else, aren't there any members of United-Synagogue-of-Conservative-Judaism-affiliated synagogues reading my blog anymore? Maybe that's what I get for being so negative about my own crew. :(
Gotta run--will comment further later, when I have a spare minute.
Anon 6:41 AM said, "Look at the dynamic synagogues and the minyans that do not affiliate but sure look like they are practicing Conservative Judaism (Hadar, Mission Minyan, DCMinyan, etc.)"
Anon 10:12 PM said, "The chancellor of JTS, certainly a Conservative Jewish institution, sees Conservative Judaism flourishing in institutions that are mindfully post-denominational. I suppose it doesn't matter to him how they identify themselves . . ."
There's an old saying that goes: "If it looks like a duck, and it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it must be a duck." If it looks like a Conservative shul and it davvens like a Conservative shul . . .
I'm not sure that saying applies in this case, though perhaps the jury is still out.
Anon 6:41, my concern is that "a Judaism that is flourishing, especially among Jews in our 20s and 30s" has to continue flourishing once a chunk of the community is married with kids and into their 40s. Institutions, however annoying they may be, tend to be the entities that support Jewish day schools and after-school programs. Without Jewish education, Conservative Judaism has no future.
Al said, "My loathing of the Conservative movement as a bastion of pitifulness doesn't change the fact that I think a dynamic semi-halachic movement to the left of modern Orthodoxy is critical to create a counter balance to the takeover of modern Orthodoxy by Hareidism."
Al, are you a fan of Yeshiva Chovevei Torah's "Open Orthodoxy," and/or do you thing the Union for Traditional Judaism might be that movement to the left?
And by the way, are you & Miami Al the same guy?
"if the practicing Conservative students are friends with the Orthodox kids in school, how many will pressure their parents to move inside the community eruv so they can play on Shabbat (when their Shabbat lacks playmates that their Orthodox peers have). Once that happens, even if they then drive to/from their Conservative Shul before resuming Shabbat at home, how many will be pressured to stop driving to Shul so that their kids friends can comfortably come over on Shabbat instead of always going to the Orthodox kid's homes."
Yep, I've met families that have become Orthodox to give their kids a community.
Miami Al, whoever you are, it may be that, should the left wing of Orthodoxy manage to hold out against encroaching Chareidism, and should they continue to support Women's Tefillah Groups, Partnership Minyanim, and the "conferral" of the title "Maharat" (or whichever title catches on) on women who wish to serve their communities in a manner similar to rabbis, perhaps more of the more observant Conservative Jews who have not yet done so will join the Orthodox camp. As you or the other Al said, "it's easier to swallow you ideological differences 2-3 hours/week at Shabbat morning services than it is to swim upstream culturally the other 165 hours/week." But that's a big "if."
Miami Al said, "The ONLY scenario where the Conservative Shul makes sense is in cases like Shira's, where the wife is the observant one and the husband is disinterested (my in-laws are close to that as well), in that case "they go" to the Conservative Shul, which means the wife goes, and the husband shows up twice a year..."
Let me correct a radical misperception: My husband, who's chair of our local synagogue's Ritual Committee, is a hard-core Sabbath-and-Festival synagogue-goer, not someone who shows up twice a year. He goes to shul every Shabbat and on the Shalosh Regalim in addition to the Yamim Noraim/High Holidays, gives out the aliyot, and chants the haftarah almost every week, these days, given that he's one of the few men left there who knows how. (He can chant a haftarah without prior practice, which I still can't do after well over a year in Ulpan Hebrew classes.) He just hasn't gotten around to such three times every day and say brachot/blessings before and after eating. In terms of synagogue observance, we're the same. It's our outside-the-synagogue observances that differ. But he respects the kashrut of our kitchen, and other observances that I do for myself and/or have brought into the family.
Eek, I deleted a few too many words while fiddling around with the wording of my last comment, and turned everything inside out, to boot: That was suppose to say "It's our outside-the-synagogue observances that differ. He just hasn't gotten around to such practices as praying three times a day and saying brachot/blessings before and after eating." That's what happens after a day of editing documents at the office.
Jdub said, "There is no Conservative Judaism outside of institutions and your blog."
Nu, if that's the case, where is everybody? Did I scare away all my Conservative Jewish readers?
For the record, I'm not ready to make the switch to Orthodoxy, not only because I'm not ready to stop riding on Shabbat, but also because I'm too blunt-spoken by nature to be able to "pass" on a long-term basis--I have a tough enough time keeping my decidely-non-Orthodox opinions to myself among the Orthos at the office, much less all the time. I don't know how well I'm do as an Orthoprax Jew (who practices Orthodox Judaism but doesn't accept all the beliefs that Orthodoxy requires.)
Shira - you wrote that "If it looks like a Conservative shul and it davvens like a Conservative shul . . .
I'm not sure that saying applies in this case, though perhaps the jury is still out."
Check out this piece written by Rabbi Rachel Nussbaum, founder of Kavana:
http://ejewishphilanthropy.com/building-a-vibrant-community-during-difficult-circumstances/
You'll see that it doesn't really quack like a Conservative congregation - because her community is a cooperative - see the website:
http://www.kavana.org/
She was ordained at JTS - but this is not Seminary Judaism.
And by the way, I am a member of a Conservative synagogue, although I don't identify myself as a Conservative Jew - and I am also a graduate of JTS. I don't know if this makes you feel better re who is reading your blog, which I like, by the way.
Anonymous 10:12
Shira, "Al, are you a fan of Yeshiva Chovevei Torah's "Open Orthodoxy," and/or do you thing the Union for Traditional Judaism might be that movement to the left?"
BTW, Miami Al/Al are the same person, I always forget what I normally sign where, I'll try to stick to Al in the future.
Personally, I'm a huge fan of the leftward pull inside of Orthodoxy, because I philosophically agree with the notion that Judiasm has 613 Mitzvot and no dogma. I think that the dogmatic trend of Hareidi/Chasidic Judaism (in response to Reform's outrageous introduction of Judaism as a religion) has introduced a VERY Christian notion of faith/religion into a culture of laws and practices.
Anything permitted is not forbidden, and I believe that Jews are permitted to live however they want within the confines of Halacha. I love vibrant Judaism, that seems to exist in my very open and BT-heavy community and in Israel, but isn't existing amongst their children.
I am in complete agreement that the argument that "if it looks Conservative, it is," is hogwash, the same nonsense as claiming that nominally Orthodox people not in full practice (not full practice, or not yet in full practice) are conservative. They are casting a big net in an intellectually fraudulent manner.
A Jewish denomination is its people and institutions... people that supply the current practitioners and the future ones via children... the institutions are critical to support the children.
If Conservative institutions dies, the practicing members will join Orthodox ones, even if under "community auspices" (a community day school with all Orthodox Rabbis, Orthodox prayers, and Orthodox Kashrut is still Orthodox, just like our Modern Orthodox Day Schools are being Hareidi Yeshivot by hiring them to teach there), and while they may remain in the conservative wing, their children will gravitate towards Orthodoxy because they are taught that Orthodoxy is "legitimate."
Like I said, our classmates with very egalitarian bents that did the egalitarian minyan in college are now all identifying as Orthodox, because to live Judaism with children requires a community, and Conservative Judaism is the downside of Judaism (boring services, fasting, etc.) without the upside (warm inviting community).
Hi, I am a member of a USCJ shul. I am only a little bit observant (for ex, avoid pork and shellfish, but no seperate dishes at home, eat treif steak at home) My kid is enthusiastic about observance, and I suspect will probably keep a stricter kashrut when she is on her own. But it is pretty clear to me that she won't be part of a non-egalitarian community. And there are several observant families in our shul (probably 5 to 10% of the congregation) not counting the professionals. They all live within walking distance of the shul (for many reasons we do not).
I don't see things quite as many folks here do. I dont see day schools dying (our local one is a community school, but its got as many reform kids as ortho, and is basically C)
I found your blog again in the course of searching for something else. I probably wont stay, as it does seem very negative - constructive criticism is great, but if I want criticism of C J, there are many places on the net to find it.
And yeah, commentators talking about loathcing the C movement doesnt make it friendly here.
And no, UTJ is no substitute. There has to be a place for observant egals.
And YCT, which wont even openly endorse partnership minyans doesnt do it either.
as for warm communities
I sometimes find my own 500 member shul not warm enough - although I know thats partly my own fault for not seeking out some of the subcommunities within it. But more importantly I know smaller shuls that are more heimishe. And I think the independent minyan movement has great potential.
" And by the way, I am a member of a Conservative synagogue, although I don't identify myself as a Conservative Jew - and I am also a graduate of JTS. I don't know if this makes you feel better re who is reading your blog, which I like, by the way.
Anonymous 10:12
Fri May 15, 10:42:00 AM 2009"
I'm glad you like my blog.
I am, however, somewhat concerned about your statement that you're a JTS grad and a member of a Conservative synagogue, but you don't consider yourself Conservative. Less than a month ago, I had a conversation with someone who's a Jewish Theological Seminary rabbinical student but who doesn't seem to see much of a future for the Conservative Movement. What on earth is JTS and/or the USCJ doing wrong, and what can they and/or we do to correct that perception?
Anon. Fri May 15, 04:37:00 PM said "I found your blog again in the course of searching for something else. I probably wont stay, as it does seem very negative - constructive criticism is great, but if I want criticism of C J, there are many places on the net to find it."
I apologize for the negative direction that my conversations on Conservative Judaism have been taking, lately. I'm just depressed about the impending death of my synagogue. We may to sell our current building by the end of the year because we now bury so many congregants every year that there just aren't enough members left to support the place.
I do have a few more points that I'd like to discuss in a future post or two, but I'll try to look at the bigger picture and cultivate a more positive attitude.
Miami Al, I prefer the longer version of your name, as it distinguishes you from other possible commenters named Al. I may get to your points in another post, as you've raised some good questions in the course of this "series."
Conservative Judaism is a long way from dead. It is popular to say that is done, but it is simply untrue.
Coming from outside the C movement, I want to offer an outsider's perspective. It seems that the C movement is torn in two, not that it is dying. The most traditionally committed members seem bitter and angry at the movement, and that seems to be a source for a lot of the talk about the C movement disappearing. That's not to say that C institutions are not in decline, but there's a long way between a contraction and a demise.
For those talking about the merge with O, I'd say there are some pretty important differences that stand in the way, and some critical trends that point to a different outcome.
The key differences are egalitarianism, acceptance of homosexuality, and acceptance of diversity of practice de jure, rather than de facto.
The left wing of Orthodoxy is coming closer to C on egalitarianism, but as it does so, mainstream Orthodoxy is marginalizing it more and more. It seems to me that as Orthodoxy rejects its left wing, its left wing is drawn to fuller expression of its values, including an honest resolution of its questions about the origins of the Torah text and the underlying authority granted to the text and its interpreters to create a monolithic halacha.
I think what we're experiencing, aside from the general shifting and re-balancing of Jewish ideas and divisions, is also a shift in vision for Jewish institutions. The rigidity of the C system is what needs revolutionizing, perhaps even more than the C ideas. Key to this is understanding that the traditional C Jew doesn't need any institutional trappings to feel affiliated, because his practice makes him affiliated. As well, a flexible vision for halachic observance (that is to say, a notion that there is a great range of acceptable practice) means that the role of the rabbi is first as educator, not as community cheerleader, or mourner-in-chief, or sermenator.
My take then is that we're seeing a reinvention of Jewish institutions by a young and committed group of Jews in every denomination. This group will still have to grapple with issues like education and infrastructure, but it seems willing to simplify, to pare away at services, and to replace professionals with laypeople not as a cost-cutting measure but as an expression of values.
I would love to see post-denomiational Judaism take hold, mostly because the institutions are broken, insolvent, inept, or corrupt... the Orthodox institutions are way further along, most of them are all four. :)
In all honesty, what does a "movement" need? Some sort of synagogue association for legal lobbying, and that need not be denominational, a US Synagogue umbrella (or 3, if Orthodox won't join the non-denominational one, and Agudah isn't going anywhere), and Rabbinic ordination bodies... and even that isn't strictly necessary, you could do it in a way LESS formal way...
It's not like a law making body of the Conservative/Reform wings really have any impact on anyone but themselves, you could pretty much replace them with a blog and web forum with restricted access and accomplish the same thing. Does anyone actually look to Reform/Conservative Responsa for answers in life?
Prayer Book publications? Nusach Ashkenaz is public domain, and the availability of the printing press, plus desktop publishing has made that pretty unnecessary. Look in the Orthodox world, Artscroll built a better mousetrap, not convinced a committee.
I hesitate to celebrate post-denominational minyanim as a success story though... the numbers are too small... and while they clearly have a dedicated group of members, those are members that the denominational synagogues would kill to have, and without the numbers to prompt a revitalization of non-Orthodox Judaism.
There are good things going in SMALL pockets of non-Orthodox Judaism. However, the group with the strongest momentum in America is Chabad, and the Yeshiva world with birth rates is pretty strong as well.
Does anyone actually look to Reform/Conservative Responsa for answers in life?From personal experience, I know at least half a dozen people who have either researched C responsa for an answer to their question, or asked me or my wife to do so for them. The C movement is (too) slowly recovering from a crippling attitude that the halachic process was really only the business of the clergy. Up until the late 1990s the only way to see C responsa was to find a rabbi who was a member of the RA and ask to see a copy.
The first step (in the 1990s) towards making responsa available was to publish a 3 volume set of responsa up until 1970 for $100 and make it available with no publicity through the USCJ bookstore. Even today the overwhelming majority of C responsa are not available on-line, and many of those that are can only be found in the rabbis only portion of the RA web site.
Now that lay people can read the responsa, some are doing so. Hopefully this trend will increase.
Larry, okay, so for the observant Conservative, there is a need for access to responsa... Aish Hatorah, Chabad, and the OU (in that order) make things available online, and in the Orthodox world, there is way more of a halachic process towards deferring to local Rabbeim. The Conservative movement, to have relevancy, needs to be more available communally to its members.
The question of value of institutions requires asking what's the point? The Orthodox world would benefit from stronger institutions in the US, IMO, because it is easy to ban, hard to permit, and right now there is a competition to be as stringent as possible to claim legitimacy... there is no Torah Great that has replaced Rabbi Moshe Feinstein with the stature to rule leniently, and the Torah world suffers for that.
In the Conservative wing, there appears to be a race to the left, to try to stop their flight to Reform, but it appears to be failing. The need to stake out a position that appeals to 30%-40% of the Jewish world to hold their dominant position... I fear that without that position, their right will be swallowed up by Orthodoxy, left by Reform, and the middle by apathy.
The unfortunate position that they are in is that the committed people are either left wing or right wing, and while moderates dominate in numbers in the US, the lose in confrontation because moderates don't care that much, hence their status as moderates.
I don't see how they can hold a line when the uncommitted majority just find Reform "easier" for issues that matter to the uncommitted, intermarriage and conversion.
I just don't see positions on Shabbat and Kashrut mattering much to the "silent majority" of American Jews who aren't that interested in observant practice but want their children to marry Jews, even if that's through a quickie conversion of their child's gentile partner.
Without encouraging more practice amongst its members (that might fail, but it hasn't been really tried), and taking out a position of "we're correct," I don't see how they can continue to stop the path towards assimilation.
The Orthodox world has seen an increase in observance in two generations, Conservative a decrease, which leaves them vulnerable to getting swallowed up. The leadership is realizing that their committed members are leaving for Orthodoxy, and they need a path to retain them, and that seems difficult without a commitment to egalitarian observance.
The Chabad approach of non-judgmentalism and incrementalism for practice seems like a model to look at, as does the growth of evangelical Christianity as a model for growth, but neither appears to be the path being taken by the Conservative movement.
Crazy thought, would repealing the automobile heter, and encouraging electrical transportation (like a Segway or Golf Cart) allow them to deal with suburbanization with some sort of community element? The possibility of electric cars and an honest halachic approach to electricity (which is NOT Aish/fire) might make it easier to stake out a more consistent position, but maybe that won't help.
Wow, I get involved in projects with deadlines--which is why I'm working today, Memorial Day--and come back to find that the conversation has continued in my absence. Give me a few minutes to catch up (assuming that I have a few more minutes until the boss arrives with more work).
Rejewvenate said:
"For those talking about the merge with O, I'd say there are some pretty important differences that stand in the way, and some critical trends that point to a different outcome.
The key differences are egalitarianism, acceptance of homosexuality, and acceptance of diversity of practice de jure, rather than de facto."
Those are pretty big differences, and I don't really see any possibility of them being bridged.
"The left wing of Orthodoxy is coming closer to C on egalitarianism, but as it does so, mainstream Orthodoxy is marginalizing it more and more."
Sad, but true, from what I can see from the C camp.
"It seems to me that as Orthodoxy rejects its left wing, its left wing is drawn to fuller expression of its values, including an honest resolution of its questions about the origins of the Torah text and the underlying authority granted to the text and its interpreters to create a monolithic halacha."
That's a rather radical statement. Do you really think that's the case?
"This group will still have to grapple with issues like education and infrastructure, but it seems willing to simplify, to pare away at services, and to replace professionals with laypeople not as a cost-cutting measure but as an expression of values."
Havurah Movement, round 2. Education and infrastructure are real issues, for those of us who need a way to educate our kids, and also for the rest of us to stay connected. Putting Jewish education online may be a great idea, but, in the final analysis, only a physical community fosters a feeling of community, and schools and camps need places to meet. Hint: One of the ways that the Havurah Movement has kept itself going all these years is by having a National Havurah Institute, a week of study, every summer. If you've never gone to a Hav. Institute, I strong recommend it. (Check my Havurah Institute posts from last summer to get an idea of what they're like.)
Best of luck to the Minyan "movement," and the like. Any effort to keep Judaism alive and kicking is welcome.
Larry and Miami Al, I've complained before about the Conservative Movement's lack of access to information online, and how annoying it is to have to go to the OU website for things such as Sefirah reminder e-mails.
Oops, here comes the boss. Later.
Miami Al said:
"The unfortunate position that they are in is that the committed people are either left wing or right wing, and while moderates dominate in numbers in the US, the lose in confrontation because moderates don't care that much, hence their status as moderates."
Er, is a Conservative Jewish women who prays three times a day AND wears a tallit and tefillin right wing or left wing? :) Or does that combination make me a moderate?
"The Orthodox world has seen an increase in observance in two generations, Conservative a decrease, which leaves them vulnerable to getting swallowed up. The leadership is realizing that their committed members are leaving for Orthodoxy, and they need a path to retain them, and that seems difficult without a commitment to egalitarian observance."
Egalitarians seen to occupy a wide range of the "observance spectrum." As you said, that's part of the problem--some of the more observant ones end up ditching egalitarianism and becoming Ortho, just to be in a community in which, for example, they don't have to worry about the kashrut of their hosts' food.
"The Chabad approach of non-judgmentalism and incrementalism for practice seems like a model to look at . . ."
I suppose I'm a good example of incrementalism. I'm more observant now than I was 5 years ago.
Miami Al said:
"Crazy thought, would repealing the automobile heter, and encouraging electrical transportation (like a Segway or Golf Cart) allow them to deal with suburbanization with some sort of community element? The possibility of electric cars and an honest halachic approach to electricity (which is NOT Aish/fire) might make it easier to stake out a more consistent position, but maybe that won't help."
I'm very interested in understanding what an honest approach to electricit might be.
Electric cars, if permissible, might be an option, once they become widely available and affordable, but Segways and Golf Carts are not an option in rainy and/or cold weather. I think I'll stay tuned. This could be interesting.
Two good Orthodox sources on electricity:
Use of electricity on Shabbat and Yom TovThe Use of electricity on shabbos and one layman's view of the Conservative stance can be found on page 7 of Practical Halacha for Conservative Jews.
The opinion of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach is that while electricity is theoretically permissible, the observant world has accepted on itself a minhag to make it forbidden. This stance means that at first glance there is no difference between his views and other more stringent views under normal conditions. On the other hand, because he regards to prohibition as a minhag he is much more willing to set it aside under conditions of danger to life, great loss, and so forth.
As I understand the Conservative positions (I don't have copies of the teshuvot available) while electricity as a means is permitted, it cannot be used to achieve ends that would otherwise be forbidden. Thus it is forbidden to use an electric oven on Shabbat in the usual way, because even though electricity is used the food is still cooked, and cooking is forbidden. On the other hand turning an electric fan on or off would be completely permitted. Oddly, turning one electric lights is permitted, although heating metal red hot is forbidden rabbinically.
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